Changing a boxes stamp (per Ryan) - Thread

Re: Changing a boxes stamp (per Ryan)

From: trentlaudes (trentlaudes@excite.com) | Date: 2003-12-11 01:35:35 UTC

As much as I enjoy disagreeing with Ryan, I have to agree with him
here, but it can get even more complicated. I believe the search for
and discovery of a new letterbox is the primary letterboxing
experience. The "F" of PF means FOUND, so if a new stamp is placed
in an already found letterbox, it doesn't mean that a letterboxer who
already knows the location of the box can claim a new find.

Ryan also says if you just change the clues slightly, and move the
box to a new location, that doesn't make it a new find--I agree here
as well, but the interesting part of Ryan's analysis is his discourse
on the intention of the boxer when he says, ". . . did you intend
to 'move' the letterbox or created a new one from scratch? If you
moved it, it won't count as a new find. If you created it from
scratch, it's a new box."

Now I've re-created the stamp (obtained from my stampbook image) of
another letterboxer's lost letterbox, which was titled "The Succulent
Box," and placed my version of the stamp in a new letterbox located
near the original letterbox's location. I incorporated some of the
clues from the original letterbox and titled my letterbox "Succulent
Box II." I consider this to be a new letterbox. Same stamp image,
but carved by a different letterboxer, in a new letterbox, placed
near the original LB location, incorporating some of the original
LBers clues, but with additional clues by me. Like I said, it can
get complicated.
--Buzzard

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "rscarpen"
wrote:
> > My question is: If you change the stamp, does that make it a new
> > box for one to go back and get if they have already gotten the
old
> > stamp? I know there are no rules but what is the concences on
> > this???
>
> The concenses on that count is that it's NOT a new box. Same
> location, same clue, same box. Even if the clue changes slightly
to
> move the box to a better hiding place doesn't necessarily make it a
> new find. (Especially if you don't even change the name of the
> box.) That's more a matter of did you intend to "move" the
letterbox
> or created a new one from scratch? If you moved it, it won't count
> as a new find. If you created it from scratch, it's a new box.
>
> But no one is checking if you count it in some other way. =)
>
> -- Ryan

Re: Changing a boxes stamp (per Ryan)

From: The Lennens3 (cckylesmomi@hotmail.com) | Date: 2003-12-11 03:24:51 UTC

think we are getting into too many rules of a "no rules Hobby"! The
letterbox I did this with had gone missing and this is a second
edition. I am not hung up on what my PFX count is anymore, so it
doesn't matter!
Carie

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "trentlaudes"
wrote:
> As much as I enjoy disagreeing with Ryan, I have to agree with him
> here, but it can get even more complicated. I believe the search
for
> and discovery of a new letterbox is the primary letterboxing
> experience. The "F" of PF means FOUND, so if a new stamp is
placed
> in an already found letterbox, it doesn't mean that a letterboxer
who
> already knows the location of the box can claim a new find.
>
> Ryan also says if you just change the clues slightly, and move the
> box to a new location, that doesn't make it a new find--I agree
here
> as well, but the interesting part of Ryan's analysis is his
discourse
> on the intention of the boxer when he says, ". . . did you intend
> to 'move' the letterbox or created a new one from scratch? If you
> moved it, it won't count as a new find. If you created it from
> scratch, it's a new box."
>
> Now I've re-created the stamp (obtained from my stampbook image)
of
> another letterboxer's lost letterbox, which was titled "The
Succulent
> Box," and placed my version of the stamp in a new letterbox
located
> near the original letterbox's location. I incorporated some of
the
> clues from the original letterbox and titled my
letterbox "Succulent
> Box II." I consider this to be a new letterbox. Same stamp image,
> but carved by a different letterboxer, in a new letterbox, placed
> near the original LB location, incorporating some of the original
> LBers clues, but with additional clues by me. Like I said, it can
> get complicated.
> --Buzzard
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "rscarpen"
> wrote:
> > > My question is: If you change the stamp, does that make it a
new
> > > box for one to go back and get if they have already gotten the
> old
> > > stamp? I know there are no rules but what is the concences on
> > > this???
> >
> > The concenses on that count is that it's NOT a new box. Same
> > location, same clue, same box. Even if the clue changes
slightly
> to
> > move the box to a better hiding place doesn't necessarily make
it a
> > new find. (Especially if you don't even change the name of the
> > box.) That's more a matter of did you intend to "move" the
> letterbox
> > or created a new one from scratch? If you moved it, it won't
count
> > as a new find. If you created it from scratch, it's a new box.
> >
> > But no one is checking if you count it in some other way. =)
> >
> > -- Ryan

Re: Changing a boxes stamp (per Ryan)

From: trentlaudes (trentlaudes@excite.com) | Date: 2003-12-11 06:11:04 UTC

Carie,
I'm sorry that my post may have upset you; you're right, letterboxing
is just about fun, and there are no rules. I was just tilting with
Ryan in my post, and didn't mean to offend you. I apologize.
--Buzzard

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "The Lennens3"
wrote:
> think we are getting into too many rules of a "no rules Hobby"!
The
> letterbox I did this with had gone missing and this is a second
> edition. I am not hung up on what my PFX count is anymore, so it
> doesn't matter!
> Carie
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "trentlaudes"
> wrote:
> > As much as I enjoy disagreeing with Ryan, I have to agree with
him
> > here, but it can get even more complicated. I believe the search
> for
> > and discovery of a new letterbox is the primary letterboxing
> > experience. The "F" of PF means FOUND, so if a new stamp is
> placed
> > in an already found letterbox, it doesn't mean that a letterboxer
> who
> > already knows the location of the box can claim a new find.
> >
> > Ryan also says if you just change the clues slightly, and move
the
> > box to a new location, that doesn't make it a new find--I agree
> here
> > as well, but the interesting part of Ryan's analysis is his
> discourse
> > on the intention of the boxer when he says, ". . . did you intend
> > to 'move' the letterbox or created a new one from scratch? If
you
> > moved it, it won't count as a new find. If you created it from
> > scratch, it's a new box."
> >
> > Now I've re-created the stamp (obtained from my stampbook image)
> of
> > another letterboxer's lost letterbox, which was titled "The
> Succulent
> > Box," and placed my version of the stamp in a new letterbox
> located
> > near the original letterbox's location. I incorporated some of
> the
> > clues from the original letterbox and titled my
> letterbox "Succulent
> > Box II." I consider this to be a new letterbox. Same stamp
image,
> > but carved by a different letterboxer, in a new letterbox, placed
> > near the original LB location, incorporating some of the original
> > LBers clues, but with additional clues by me. Like I said, it
can
> > get complicated.
> > --Buzzard
> >
> > --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "rscarpen"
> > wrote:
> > > > My question is: If you change the stamp, does that make it a
> new
> > > > box for one to go back and get if they have already gotten
the
> > old
> > > > stamp? I know there are no rules but what is the concences
on
> > > > this???
> > >
> > > The concenses on that count is that it's NOT a new box. Same
> > > location, same clue, same box. Even if the clue changes
> slightly
> > to
> > > move the box to a better hiding place doesn't necessarily make
> it a
> > > new find. (Especially if you don't even change the name of the
> > > box.) That's more a matter of did you intend to "move" the
> > letterbox
> > > or created a new one from scratch? If you moved it, it won't
> count
> > > as a new find. If you created it from scratch, it's a new box.
> > >
> > > But no one is checking if you count it in some other way. =)
> > >
> > > -- Ryan

Re: Changing a boxes stamp (per Ryan)

From: rscarpen (RiskyNil@pocketmail.com) | Date: 2003-12-11 09:12:09 UTC

> think we are getting into too many rules of a "no rules Hobby"!

The hobby has always had rules. "No rules" just sounds better and
would be great in an ideal world, but that's never been the case. =)

> I am not hung up on what my PFX count is anymore, so it
> doesn't matter!

Yeah, I don't know my PFX count accurately anymore.

And as Buzzard mentioned, while most letterboxes tend to be more
clear-cut about whether a box should count as a new find or not,
there are always the confusing borderline cases where one could make
a good case for in either direction. In a case like that, just count
it how you feel is most accurate and don't worry about what others
say. It's not THAT important!

-- Ryan